Notes: 7th March 2015
DEMOCAFE CAMDEN
Notes of meeting held on Saturday 7th March 2015 at the Forge, Camden.
Present, Eddie Farrell, Michael Mulvey, James Richmond ( Chair), Carol McNicoll, Alan Spence, Sarah Jolly, Mary Fee ( notes), Ray Sheath, Clayton James, Janos Abel.
Apology from Peter McGinty, who was responsible for mail-out, and Kuan Phsillips.
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1. Looking at ELECTION LITERATURE
looking at examples of what election material has arrived through our doors in Camden from local candidates. Noting our response in order to compile a group reply.
Labour Party, mentions retiring candidate Frank Dobson and his endorsement of new candidate Keir Starmey. It identifies his chief election concerns as housing, inequality, and protecting public services for Holborn and St Pancras.
Carol- These are all lovely sentiments, but no details are given. It’s easy to say protecting the NHS, but how what is the party willing to do? The previous Labour government hardly scrapped the moves towards privatisation that the Tory government had implemented during the 80s and 90s.
…..Characteristically, New Labour rebranded pfi as ppp—the more touchy-feely ‘Public–Private Partnership’—and then dramatically expanded its reach. Blair and Brown have been far more energetic advocates for it than their predecessors: where the Major government only set up 2 such projects in the nhs, for example, Labour approved 8 in its first year in power, and 17 the next. By 2009, close to 150 pfi projects had been contracted in the nhs alone, accounting for 90 per cent of capital investment in health since 1997. ( extract from Tony Wood’s New Left Review article, http:// newleftreview.org/II/62/tony-wood-good-riddance-to-new-labour – Good Riddance to New Labour)
– There’s no detail in these Party tasters, just avagueness around the proposals. We need to ask them to unbundle all three issues. housing/ tackling inequalities/ public services, especially the NHS.
– In our response we need to ask them simple questions about what they are actually going to do about all issues that concern us.
– Keir Starmer is as yet an unknown quantity (dark horse).
– Frank Dobson is deemed to have been a good MP and endorses the new candidate.
– James mentions about the campaign to protect Denmark Street, (the old Tin Pan Alley), and the good work which Frank Dobson is doing as chair of the campaign. He was also Secretary of State for Health, when the UCLH was rebuilt. He was instrumental in keeping the new building on the Euston Road site and in the Camden borough rather than it being moved up to Finchley.
– Michael produces a letter that Frank Dobson had wrote to him concerning a 38 degrees petition about Fracking. It’s a standard letter, saying he (Frank Dobson) is cognisant of all the problems involved in tracking, but says one cannot close the door to shale gas. He quotes statistics on gas usage, and that we need to be flexible, since our ability to source this fuel within our own boarders has been declining, and we need to base our campaigns on evidence from pilot projects.
– Responses from members present were that there was a lack of willingness to consider new technologies, and that there are better ways to go about it than fracking, it looks like they say one thing but do something else.
-He could have gone by the precautionary principle of not trying new things until we are sure they are safe.
Eddie offers an anecdote about Forth Road Bridge in Scotland, from Fife to Edinburgh. When the cabling began to break the only suggestion was to build another road bridge and quick. No one stopped to ask do we need thousands of commuters ( driving from Fife to the City everyday) sitting in their cars sometimes up to six hours a day, there and back from work in crawling rush hour traffic. The first thought for Scotland was to go into wild panic saying we need another bridge!
– No one stopped to question why Fife had so few jobs and why so many people have to commute miles everyday to their jobs.
– I wouldn’t say another bridge didn’t need to be built, only that an opportunity was missed for Scotland to ask some fundamental questions about it’s jobs, it’s workforce and it’s future ( presumably the point of the 2014 referendum.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BWE_fWh8bw
– James says, yes, we are always dealing with symptoms, rather than the main issues behind them.
– Michael says we should put restrictions on companies which would persuade them not to go ahead with fracking.
– Alan talks about what happened with coal-mining when it was still a nationalised industry, about the major heating technology research that was never seen through when the industry was broken into pieces.
– Clayton says they don’t want to give people sustainable energy, they would prefer people to keep on paying through the nose, to keep them under control. Look at the Pennines, wind turbines, still paying for them.
-Carol says there are lots of wind turbines in Holland, nobody objectst to them, obviously it’s producing energy.
-Michael says it’s because they have a government energy programme, whereas here we don’t, and it’s all about the companies making a profit. This is the problem with private enterprise, it’s industry led, the profits from it’s competitiveness goes to it’s shareholders not the public, it’s not coherent.
-What about a national, rational, energy policy.
Back to the LEAFLET: Keir Starmer says although Camden has had budget slashed It is still providing 25 free child care hours a week and is a living wage employer, he says this shows what Labour is achieving in difficult times.
– Eddie says he has noticed more person to person council services being run down and facilities closing (Judd Street) and clearly as a consequence of the stress this is causing, staff can often be rude and harassed.
– Clayton suggests getting a short list of specific questions together, to ask the candidate.
Q. how does the future labour government intend to make up for the democratic deficit, how would they go about tackling inequalities and low pay etc?
Eddie – New Labour, were paranoid about the press getting a sniff of anything remotely resembling left-wing idealism and jumping on them. You can see it now with all the witch hunts that are still going on in the media against the NHS. Labour have gone way beyond keeping silent on so many issues, what have they got to lose? – Clayton, the question is whether Keir Starmer will be able to do anything…
Q. to what extent is the Camden Labour party prepared to distinguish itself from the policies of New Labour, what is their position?
For so many former Labour voters, The Blair Government taking us into Iraq was the turning point. This is still an important point for the current Labour party to address.
Back to the LEAFLET: Keir Starmer says we can continue the wrong path this government has pursued or we can elect a Labour Party to do…… He says the Tory led government is presiding over a crisis, e.g. NHS will not exist in current form, staff doing an excellent job, but budgets getting squeezed, waiting times amongst the worst in the country, only labour will rise to the challenges, 20k additional nurses, 8k gps, the alternative will be a deepening crisis under the conservative government. -Mary interjects, they are not analysing the real problem, there has been an obsession with targets. There’s a paranoia about anything that looks inefficient.
– Alan’s petition proposing a UK referendum on whether to keep the NHS.
– Ray, a group of young people he approached last week when gathering signatures for the 38 degrees Petition to save the NHS, actually asked, what is the NHS?
A summary of the last part of leaflet, focuses on education, protected, ring-fenced, refers to Ed Milliband’s statement that they will protect the education budget.
-Mary asks whether there is knowledge amongst this group of Monetary Reform, citizens income, etc?
– Michael refers to the GREEN PARTY LEAFLET, which stands on its own, and identifies 6 clear issues. Michael says, why not confront the Labour Party with the Green Party’s ideas? and ask them how many of these ideas they can take on board? The Green Party offers a set of cogent steps towards 2015 constitutionalists, for example Land Value Tax.
Labour and the Coalition are not addressing systemic issues.
– Michael suggests develop an election position paper, put it to this cafe next week.
Suggestion to create a series of questions, either write a letter or invite Keir Starmer to attend the café where we could put the questions to him……..
At this point we had a brief outline by Mary Fee of FLATPACK DEMOCRACY – a DIY guide to Creating Independent Politics, by Peter MacFadyen, published by Eco Logic Books – http://www.eco-logicbooks.com
Mary’s Report. Peter McFadyen attended the Compass Conference, Democracy- How in February 2015, where they had over 1000 participants and over 100 15- minute sessions. Copies of this book were on sale, or given away to people who were going to do something positive with it, so this report is in return for having been given a free copy.
I’ve read the book through, and found it interesting, but perhaps a little anecdotal and repetitious. Just to give you an idea of its contents, the chapter headings are: Democracy in Crisis, Why Bother, Before we Begin, The Essentials, The First Public Meeting, Choosing the Candidates, How to Operate as a Group, Preparing a Campaign, The Media – a Strategy, Election Day and the Count, That was the Easy Bit, Keeping the Show on the Road, What Next for Frome and What can we Learn?
Without re-reading it, what I recall about it is that it tells the story of an attempt to put theory into practice. Frome is a small town in Somerset, and as in many places things are done in a certain way and however much you complain about it, the thing is what can you do to actually make changes.
They see Frome as stuck in a moribund two-party system, with votes according to the whip, and little independence of thought, presiding over an inefficient local council with disempowered staff, only the insiders know how the system works, and any attempts to change greeted with derision. The general public are mainly apathetic. So this could be seen as a microcosm experiment, and it was only necessary to shift a few dozen votes to make a difference. There was emphasis on branding (e.g. Independence for From = IfF, with slogans such as “If only…etc) and PR, including meetings, leaflets, social media, etc…….
This gave rise to some discussion:
– CJ has talked about education, democracy is not on the curriculum.
– Eddie, as much as social media can work for you it can also work against you; it’s an achievement to even be having a meeting like this one today and it’s a strength. Social Media can keep us be in a virtual loop but it can also gives us a false sense of togetherness and strength that can only really be found when combined with meeting up face to face.
– Perhaps the link with 38 degrees would help get the candidates to attend a Saturday meeting. Head any invite to candidates with: Democafe, Camden branch of 38 degrees?
– Holding a meeting where those attending are able to directly question the candidates that are standing locally, would be a very positive thing for our Democafe to achieve at this stage and it could also expand the meeting considerably.
– Ray suggests we just invite candidates to Democafe, there is a strength to being a group of Camden Residents who meet regularly and who are also independent of the party system and perhaps even not directly linked to the lobbying side of 38 degrees? We need our own brand, it’s face to face meetings, it may have arisen out of 38 degrees, but that’s an online campaign group and this is different.
For Next Saturday
-Michael suggests, he will try to invite someone from 38 degrees to next week’s meeting to ask them where they stand on some of the major issues we have been discussing over the past few weeks, not least their views on the democratic deficit. -Michael will inform the group if and when he gets a response from 38 degrees.
– If the meeting does go ahead next Saturday as planned could anyone attending,(and we hope you all can) bring along any relevant questions to this end.
– James has suggested starting a housing study group which he would like to get off the ground ASAP ( while we still have a roof over our heads.)
“Towards a Shared Vision of Democracy” Michael brought copies of this leaflet and asks us to comment on it for next time. It is his, in development, draft that looks at practical ways to address the Democratic Deficit, (the document is attached to this email.)
4. A Message for DemoCafe Camden from Kuan Philipp.
Dear members of the Camden Group. Sorry that I haven’t been able to attend this week’s meeting. I have written this as a contribution to your discussion of different types of democracy. I’ve been working on my own system, which I call “Jury Rule”. Jury Rule is intended to replace our current representative democracy……..(Copies of letter available from Janos Abel)